Similarities begin where Differences end

2022 | 19 min reading time

Guests at ZENTRALNORDEN

There were times when vegan NGOs fought tooth and nail against large corporations. Denise from ZENTRALNORDEN has recognized how they can benefit from each other and brought Doreen, member of the supervisory board of Domino's Pizza, and Veganuary CEO Ria together.

INTERVIEW Maja Hoock, PHOTOS Patrick Nietzsche

Opposites attract, they say. In politics and business, the situation is usually rather different. You are hastily categorized as the good or bad guy. Labels are easily assigned these days. As a creative agency, we work within these areas of tension on a daily basis. Depending on the client, project and target group, we operate within certain existing structures, but also offer many new perspectives thanks to the diversity of our assignments and insights. Outside of hierarchies and beyond the horizon, we discover surprising possibilities and connections. We encourage our clients to think outside the box and see ourselves as free spirits and accelerators/catalysts. That's why people reach out to us. And when we feel as much love as we do for the following two guests, we are even happy to do it without being asked to. Simply because we see something positive in it and love bringing good people together.

Our two interviewees are from Berlin, both like yoga, are successful women and yet are as different as night and day: Doreen Huber and Ria Rehberg. Doreen, investor and Denise's childhood friend, recently sold her successful catering start-up Lemoncat and is the youngest woman on the supervisory board of Domino's Pizza, a massive meat consumer. Ria fights for a better world out of firm conviction. She is the CEO of the donation-funded NGO Veganuary, which aims to convince meat eaters to go vegan in January.

Denise explained to them why the two are a good match despite their initial prejudices. She sat the dissimilar leaders down at the same table, brought the vegan together with the board member of a fast food empire. Can this work? Definitely yes. The result is a cooperation that benefits both sides.

As guests on ZENTRALNORDEN, "the superinvestor”, “the eco-activist” and “the creative” engage in a loving exchange of blows about effective altruism, leadership roles and the supposed contradiction between earning money and doing good. In the process, they come to the conclusion: It's not all black or white. We can get further together than against each other. And it's fun too.

Denise, why did you bring together your unlikely friends Ria from Veganuary and Doreen from Domino's?

Denise

For us as a creative agency, the intersection of companies that don't shy away from each other is very exciting. Dealing with these areas of conflict, defining ones stance and making a positive impact: Where do I get the most impact for my good cause? In my opinion, it is more beneficial to cooperate than to boycott companies. Companies that don't act in a very sustainable way yet, have the greatest potential to bring about relevant positive change by rethinking their approach.

Doreen, were you prejudiced against “the eco-activist” Ria?

Doreen

Yes, as an entrepreneur, I did feel a bit attacked. Ria didn't attack me. But as someone who is not an activist, you do feel on the defensive when you sell a mass product.

Many people associate Domino's with double salami pizza and lots of cheese. The contact via Denise made the cooperation with Veganuary happen. How were you able to get that on the agenda, Doreen?

Doreen

In our frequent supervisory board meetings, among other things we naturally discuss food trends and how we can adapt to market requirements. I knew Ria through Denise and suggested Veganuary to bring the topic more into focus. Domino's was very open to the idea because they also have something to gain from it - positive press, for example.

Ria

And you already gained Veganuary experience with your former company.

Doreen

That's right, with Lemoncat, my catering start-up. The vegan January with animal-free lunches and snacks was a real hit with the people in the company back then. Even the critics, who were perhaps a little amused by “the greenies” beforehand, gave it a try. After that, my whole family and I stuck with oat milk instead of cow's milk - something I would have never guessed. With Domino's, we now have a much wider reach with the project.

»Dealing with these areas of conflict, defining ones stance and making a positive impact.«

- Denise

Denise

I've had many discussions with Doreen about the vegan diet. I think it's a great success that she is implementing something like this in her own company. And that she continues to do so in her private life. I would have never believed it.

Doreen

To be fair, I have to admit that as an entrepreneur I saw it as a marketing campaign. But one doesn't necessarily have to exclude the other.

Three women, three paths and a few things in common

You have known each other since kindergarden. What did you want to be back then?

Doreen

I wanted to be a fashion designer or a journalist. But my mother always tells me that I wanted to become a millionaire and buy her an island. (laughs)

Ria

I wanted to be a vet.

Denise

Me too! Or a ballet dancer. (all laugh)

What do you tell your parents that you are proud in your professional life?

Ria

I would tell them how much animal suffering in factory farming we have already been able to avoid with Veganuary. A scientist from Oxford has calculated that 350,000 people who go vegan for a month save as much CO2 as is emitted by 450,000 flights from Berlin to London. Plus, it would save 2.5 million liters of water and prevent 1.2 million animals from spending their whole life in factory farming.

Doreen

In my industry, success is measured by money, investors or the number of employees. That's why I would tell my parents about that. I can't say that I save lives with my company, but I do create jobs and am committed to increasing the number of women in management positions. I come from a simple background. My father is an electrician, my mother worked in an office and I was the first in my family to go to university. But my parents were always very hard-working and I definitely inherited that from them. I always had the drive to make enough money.

Ria

That's a different mindset. I couldn't have motivated myself to do a job just for the sake of making more money. I only developed ambition through altruism.

Denise

Money isn't my top priority either. Having fun at your job is so important! Very ambitious people sometimes lack that. From my perspective, neither most large corporations nor NGOs have perfect structures and I believed that there had to be something in between. That's why I advocate for collegial leadership at our company, for example. I am absolutely motivated to act profitably. But it makes me even more proud to see that people are doing well at our company. And that's despite the fact that, as an agency, we always have to perform faster, further and more creatively than our clients.

What is collegial leadership?

Denise

It means that responsibility is distributed. And most importantly: competence leads, not title or status. Although there are hierarchies, visions and strategies, certain management tasks are the responsibility of people chosen by the team. As a result, they understand entrepreneurship better and are intrinsically motivated. So there will be a lot more energy behind it. I just came back from vacation and the team made good decisions only.

Have you also had experience with collegial leadership, Doreen?

Doreen

Yes, because a good leader makes sure to keep the most capable people close to them. You've only done a good job when the company keeps running if you'd get hit by a bus tomorrow.

How do you differ most professionally?

Doreen

I had to make a lot of tough decisions. Denise is more open and quicker when it comes to letting people from work into your private life. And I couldn't imagine working this much for very little money like Ria.

Ria

We were true activists and only wanted to earn as much as we needed to survive. After seven years, I realized that this wasn't good for the team or for me. We have since adjusted the salary a bit.

Denise

I have great respect for Ria, for how long she worked with a low salary simply out of conviction. I couldn't do that either. One difference to Doreen is that we give freedoms that she probably couldn't: In big companies, if a child is sick, you have to get a sick bill form a doctor's office. Me on the other hand, I can also tolerate it if an employee doesn't make it to the doctor straight away. Profitability isn't our highest priority, so we take such liberties. And it still works. We have already discussed this a lot.

Would decisions like Denise's work for you? For example, that employees don't have to take the official sick leave?

Doreen

Many start-ups take care of their employees' work-life balance, giving them extra vacation days and paying for yoga and fruit. But this has nothing to do with idealism: In the war for talent, you have to be appealing to good people. However, very large companies need guidelines. Otherwise chaos reigns.

What does employee management look like in an NGO like Veganuary?

Ria

Our impact should be as great as possible. That's why the only difference is that all our employees are already intrinsically motivated. I don't have to provide them with fridges full of softdrinks, but rather enforce that they actually take their vacation days and don't work too much overtime.

Denise

(laughs heartily)

Ria

But even idealistic people are not immune to burnout. Before I joined the company, we had new employees joining almost every year - now we pay more attention to work-life balance.

Swapping roles

Slip into the role of career advisors. What would you change about each other?

Ria

I'd tell Denise that we need to take care of ourselves more, so that we don't burn out. (everyone agrees)

Denise

I'd love to really put Doreen through the mill and loosen her up.

Doreen

(laughs) Then I wouldn't survive in my world anymore! It's funny: we still see ourselves as we were when we were at school, because the brain stores the younger version of ourselves and our surroundings. But we have all adapted to our environment. If we tried to switch into the world of the other today, it wouldn't work. (all nod)

If you had to swap roles for a day: What would you do?

Ria

I would get rid of all meat products at Domino's and only offer vegan pizzas!

Doreen

As the CEO of Veganuary, I would approach all the big companies and convince them to join. And use my network to bring in investors and set my metrics. Ria's employees would probably get annoyed with me quite quickly. (laughs)

Denise

And if you get desperate, come and see me and we'll straighten things out. I'd also be happy to take in all the talents after they've bailed out on you.

Enough about differences. What do you have in common professionally?

Doreen

We all roll up our sleeves and pitch in - none of us sits on a throne and just gives instructions. When I see Denise giving a workshop, she is passionate and persuasive. When I see Ria giving talks, she really manages to motivate others. Maybe that's the female leadership style?

Does the fact that you are women play a role?

Denise

I believe that we are closer to the team than many “traditional” men in management positions. I don't have to make a big fuss, but am rather happy when others come to the fore. It's important to me that things move forward. It's the good ideas that count, not the fact that they come from me. I see teamwork as a close collaboration, as a joint mission in a trusting network. This should not be a showdown for competition.

Doreen

I've always been a "loud" person and don't have to make myself heard in groups of men. But not all women are like that and then you're not heard enough or you sell yourself short. That's why I've always made sure to hire lots of women and I'm a big fan of the women's quota.

Ria

Even in animal welfare, 80 percent of managers are still male. I have hired almost exclusively female managers. Not because I wanted to, but because they were simply the best candidates.

Did the encounter with Ria change something in you, Doreen?

Doreen

Yes! I'm currently thinking about what I could do next. And whether it should be something that fulfills me personally as much as it does for Ria and Denise. (both beaming)

Thank you very much!

This article is from our BAM magazine. Find out more about it here.

BAM Magazine

Tags: Designagentur, Führung, Gemeinsamkeiten, Großkonzern, NGO, Unterschiede, Vegan

Ria Rehberg

CEO | Veganuary

Ria was co-executive director of the animal welfare organization Animal Equality Germany. She also takes an unusual approach and led the German arm of the "Million Dollar Vegan" campaign, which offered Pope Francis 1 million US dollars if he tried a vegan diet during Lent.

veganuary.com

Doreen Huber

Supervisory Board member | Domino's Pizza

Doreen can already look back on a successful history as an entrepreneur and business angel who supports young start-ups as an investor. She is an expert in food tech, was COO at Delivery Hero, founded and successfully sold Lemoncat and is now at Domino's Pizza. Nothing was given to her along the way. And she has also realized that you have to recharge your batteries from time to time. When she's not on the road, she currently lives on Mallorca.

linkedin.com/in/doreenhuber

Denise Bliesener

Former CEO | ZENTRALNORDEN

Sports junkie, paramedic, biologist, communicator. Denise also stands for bubbling energy. In one word? A jack of all trades. After many years of experience on the corporate and agency side, she finds it easy to communicate. As a source of inspiration, she drives projects forward with a strategic flair for communication and design.